Managing your career 2-5 years out of school

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Managing your career 2-5 years out of school

Location: South Ballroom

Presenters: Carole Dulong (Google), Gaby Aguilera (Google), Hillery Hunter (IBM), Neha Narula (Google), Shalaka Bhuskute (Intel), Sukyoung Ryu (Sun Microsystems), Yanting Li (Cisco Systems)

This panel will feature 6 panelists from Cisco, Google, IBM, Intel, and Sun who will discuss how to manage the early stages of the career of an engineer. The panel will first discuss how to make a successful transition from school to work. Panelists will then talk about their experience in managing their career during the first few years in their jobs.

Carole and Gaby couldn't make it due to cancelled flights.


Neha introduced the panel


Sukyoung Ryu

  • PhD Korea
  • Post doc Harvard
  • now at Sun
  • "proud mom of" two daughters
  • project is to design and develop the Fortress programming language, dream project for Sukyoung
  • wanted to work on the language semantic, but the syntax was not done
  • so much brilliance and such strong opinions
  • therefore a lot of arguments
  • learned a lot . . .
  • but wanted to move on to productive work
  • tried to organize the team
  • youngest team member of only woman for a long way
  • not easy to coordinate discussions
  • worked late
  • try to be courteous
  • find a job that you really love so that working late does not
  • job that "me and my team can both be happy about"


Neha Time management

  • "Time at work does not equal productivity"
  • People spending lots of time does not mean you have to or will be productive
  • "Email is a huge time killer"
    • don't leave it open all day and flip to it every time an email comes in
  • bring a list to work of what the priorities are
  • immediately try to attack something on the list
  • sometimes figuring out priorities means talking to your manager
  • find out what is important, the basis you will be evaluated on
  • "projects are very different from problem sets and even different from" class projects
  • projects can get cancelled, understand that things are going to change
  • "One mistake I made early on . . . was taht I was afraid to communicate"
    • feel like you need to get the task done before you go back and get information
    • it's okay if a project takes longer than you thought or find a deadline unreasonable, but give that information early on
  • there's a huge temptation to work long hours
  • burnout is a real possibility, and it will catch up to you if you're working too much

Shalaka Visibility

  • Meetings
    • worked in product marketing with seven to eight meetings a day
    • on the first week during a major conference call was introduced as an intern
    • decided to meet one-on-one to make sure she was known by individuals
  • Presentations
    • gave an hour presentation with a days' notice
    • got the presentation together, but got a lot of unexpected questions
    • mentor suggested to do a dry run with the manager
  • Speaking out
    • can be hard for new graduate students
    • note suggestions to discuss with mentor and manager
    • over time will develop confidence and skill to speak out
  • Networking
    • extremely useful
    • introduces opportunities
    • a lot of organizations have groups that she suggests getting involved with
    • even chatting with people on the plane can
    • "it only takes a little extra effort to network and really positive things come out of it"

Hillary Feedback

  • started a new hire network for people in their first five years
  • indication that "it takes quite a while" to get settled and oriented in your career
  • the first two years "I would characterize as a process of finding yourself"
  • from two to five years you are "defining your mark" and "deciding what your expertise is"
  • feedback is really critical for these phases
  • "communication is key"
  • 3 keys areas: management, peers, and yourself
  • Management
    • easy to talk to direct manager
    • ask for feedback from second-line and third-line or even people outside
    • other levels are seeing your work and are good to ask for feedback
    • if you don't have an official mentor through the company or the one you have isn't working for you, seek one out
    • seek one outside your organization is well
  • Peers
    • "people learn more than anything from listening to the experience of others"
    • every manager has a different style
    • also good to see how communication works in other organizations or other parts of the organization
    • if some communication style you think would work better for you, be proactive and ask for feedback in that form
  • Self
    • benchmarking
    • consider comparing yourself to others
    • not comfortable and don't get hung up on it
    • it's good to checkpoint and find out what sorts of things other people are getting
    • especially if English is not your first language, but even it is, it can be useful to listen to a recording of yourself in a meeting
    • find out how you sound to other people and what your communication style is
  • act responsibly on feedback when you get it
  • don't beat yourself up about it but act on it
  • "the more responsible taht you are with the feedback that you get, the more feedback you will like"

Yanting Continuing your education while working

  • a lot of options
    • internal in the company
    • local universities
  • "work will always be number one", you have to work the classes into your work schedule
  • she has taken a class every other quarter at the university, both technical and non-technical
  • when deciding what to take and when to take, it is important to discuss with a manager
  • find out when there is more time
  • set a goal for yourself, like how many hours you want to spend on classes every year


Questions Q: Thoughts on when to start looking for internships and when to focus on studies? A: Hillary - did five interships. Do undergraduate interships early on to get a feeling about whether you want to go to graduate school. You can get, from an internship, and clear idea about the kinds of jobs you'll get from a Bachelor. In grad school, you can get an idea about whether you want a job in that area, and later on it is a way to establish a relationship with companies you might want a job on. Nehu - internships can be indispensable. It's important to get research experience if you want to go to grad school, but you can do that during the school year and interships during the summers.

Q: What about moving from beginning to senior levels? A: Nehu - becoming known as a go-to person. "Taking an area and really owning it, being the person that others really rely on in your team" This can come from reliability or deep knowledge, there are different ways to do it. Sukyoung - "I found myself being a moderator", and colleagues were grateful for that. Pick an area you can work on well and then you can get the visibility Hillary - understand the criteria the managers use. Look at the portfolios of people two levels above you and settings some of that as goals. You have to, past the first two years, take initiative and drive your career. Find the level you want to get to and then role models and

Q: How much did you education prepare you for the work world and the real world? A: Yanting - school is more about time management and learning. When you first start working you are going to specific training. Nehu - Started from a liberal arts school, and moved to "wish that I had done more coding in undergraduate" Shalaka - Everything I do is based on learning from others and on-the-job training, the material from school has nothing to do with that. Sukyoung - as undergraduate was not ready to work on anything by herself. Graduate school provided training for that.

Q: As an assistant professor, have settled on 45-50 hours a week to avoid burnout. What is the trade-off between getting the things you are supposed to done, as well as putting in face time and having a life. Nehu - personally overweighted face time initially. Your first priority should be getting your work done. Then it is about what makes you happy. If you love work, you can put in extra time, but it comes at the expense of your own time. Important to rejuvenate and recharge. Audience - going to lunch with your colleagues is really helpful Hillary - It is a question of how much you network. You should put as much into as you get out of it. This can help you evaluate how well you're spending time. If you find you're not contributing to the network, then maybe you are not spending enough time on work (if you can't actually help people).

Q: Telecommuting is a blessing and curse. Even though it was more productive than anything else, there was a perception that she wasn't working. She found driving in for lunch made a really big difference. Any suggestion? Sukyoung - working from home one or two days a week. Have a weekly meeting with a progress report and skype chat. This can increase visibility and connections. Nehu - One day a week at home. Team adopted a daily check in (email). Hillary - Similar situation in grad school that there was an assumption that hours in the lab related to productivity. Found more reliance on the work metric in industry, that it was about what got done not how many hours were put in. Yanting - Friends who work from home regularly schedule (weekly or monthly) lunches are meeting to get the face time in.

Q: What were especially good about mentors you have had and what were some things that didn't work so well. Yanting - Was part of a network to integrate new hires into Cisco culture. Had mentoring circle with 2-3 mentors and 3-4 mentees that would meet with assigned topics. Structured programs can be helpful, not necessarily assigning topics but at least providing suggestions Q: What kind of strategies do you use to pair them? Yanting - look for mentors from the existing networks. A lot of things are similar. Hillary - IBM strong commitment to mentoring. Assigns two mentors - a connections coach (about settling into the culture, for about two years) and a longer-term senior mentor. Managers are supposed to assign but don't always. Started a drop-in mentoring program. A senior person would be available for appointments. Penalty-free, outside of everyone's line of management. Mentors can be advocates or a hands-on mentor that gives more regular advice. Can also have a mentor for specific kinds of questions rather than just Sukyoung - Sun has program for new hires and another for higher level. Have list of mentors and mentees with open information so that it can be request and then try to match. Yanting - can also teach how to be a good mentee. It is good to have questions and be driving the relationship Shalaka - two mentors.

Q: How do you get informal mentors? How do you ask someone you admire about something like that? A: Yanting - as you described. Go up to them and say hi. It's hard but networking can help. Suggest lunch or coffee. Nehu - "Don't have to necessarily say 'Will you be my mentor'" Just ask their opinion or on a case-by-case basis. Don't be afraid to ask for some time. Hillary - People are flattered Sukyoung - Find a person you can be honest with

Q: A great way to progress is to start something, like a book club. Comfortable way to develop your leadership skills.

Q: Heard it's good to have a mentor not from your industry? A: Nehu - Strange. Think it would be difficult. Hillary - yes, someone I met through undergrad. And someone in financial industry. Both have been helpful, some perspective on how their organizations function and understanding how things work elsewhere is helpful. Completely different perspectives can also be helpful for non-conventional ideas. Yanting - you never know, you might want to change industries. It's helpful to know people.

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