Industry Track: The Imposter Panel
From Anita Borg Institute Wiki
Panelists: Shamsi T. Iqbal (Microsoft Research), Jennifer Tour Chayes (Microsoft), Rachel Weinstein Petterson (Google), Nancy M. Amato (Texas A&M), Tanzeem Choudury (Dartmouth College),
Originally scheduled, but could not make it: Meredith Ringel Morris (Microsoft Research), Amy Karlson (Microsoft Research)
The "imposter syndrome" is a common yet typically unacknowledged condition where those experiencing it have difficulties believing in and internalizing their own accomplishments. The panel will provide an opportunity for audience members to see that they are not alone in having “imposter” fears, and to hear how the distinguished panelists have coped with and surmounted challenges in self-confidence.
- Notes by Shanna Leonard
Imposter Syndrome Video
PanelModerator:
I'm here because someone else could not make it. I Probably will mess it up. Got admitted to grad school probably on error.
Contents |
Rachel
BS Brown PHD Stanford. Worked at Industrial light and Magic on big moves like Pirates of the Carribean and others. Works at Google now.
Had a first assignment in CS. Did not do as well as hoped. Cried. Convinced that there was no way to make it. Everyone else probably did better. 90% was actually pretty good but did not realize it.
Next TA for CS Graphics course. Interviewed. Convinced had bombed it. Told Prof to give position to other candidates. Prof said NO! Turns out had done well, but thought had done badly.
Research group at Stanford. Original advisor left. Other students spent 24/7 in lab. (Smelly in lab ;). She wanted to shower, eat, etc. Felt inadequate within the group. Wanted to maintain her sanity and have a whole life.
Problem is taking best aspects of others and comparing yourself.
How to deal with this?
- Nagging voice says "you were lucky, even though you did it wrong" IGNORE IT.
- ACT CONFIDENT.
- (even right now I wonder why I was picked for this panel even though I don't feel successful.)
- Check in with people who know you reality check.
Questions
Q: What is your earliest memory of feeling like an imposter?
A: Rachel: Elementary school - got a part in acting, but thought that someone else must have messed up. This problem can show up in other parts of your life, Not just work
A: ? In session on why women don't make it to high levels. A man got up and said he wonders if the last generation was the problem. The new generation of women does not have this problem. This is not so. She did not have this problem when she was young. Started out confident and developed the syndrome due to responses that come along the way being a woman. She ran into all kinds of walls: wood, brick, tsunami. Was grad student in physics. In 1979. Grad advisors told faculty not to advise her and her husband because it would be a waste of time because they would not get jobs together. Sometimes the more subtle ones are harder to deal with. People don't expect you to be as smart.
Q: Aren't there two benefits?
- you work harder to compensate
- you are not a bragger
A1: Rachel - Yes, but you can work very hard without the insecurity.
A2: I don't agree. There are better motivators to work hard than insecurity. There are better ways to have humility.
A3: At grad school was told "humility takes you nowhere."
A4:
- I got tenure 4 years out of grad school because I worked so hard. so Yes it is a motivator. On the other hand our marriage fell apart.
- I tried to act too assertive and overcompensated. This was not helpful. I would have gotten to same place with less pain.
Tanzeem
Worked at Intel, now assitant prof at Dartmouth.
When Do I Feel Like an Impostor
- Attending tech conference.
- First time in HS. Had never touched a computer thru HS. Took Pascal class in College. Tried to use Mac computer at Library. Did not know how to go to next line when typing program in. TA said are you sure you want to take class But ended up getting the highest grade in the class.
- Met many people over career who are so successful. I have one or two good ideas, but my work does not impact the real world
- Every time a rejection goes through want to quit.
- Every time success it's "Just because I am a woman." or "Just because a minority."
How to treat this problem?
- Find people you trust, mentors, who will tell you the truth. Will give positive as well as negative feedback.
- When came to MIT I was so quiet. I listened to others and noticed the loudest speakers were wrong sometimes.
- You can't fool all of the people all of the time! Something must be right with you if everyone else thinks so.
Stories from audience
When I was in HS, am in college now. In jr year everyone said she would be valedictorian. Rejected everyone's opinion. They made her valedictorian, and finally she accepted she was smart.
Lauren from Purdue. Feel like that every day of her life.
Sara from Florida state. When in undergrad. Learning Cobol. Only girl in class of 30. Guy would say " how did you like that last assignment - I did it in 2 hours" Everyone was saying how easy it was, even though it took her two nights. The prof heard it and did an anonymous code review in class. The guy bragged it was him. The prof took down the bragging guy on his errors.
Jolee - Microsoft. In testing and development. Degree is in Biology. Struggle because she does not have a CS degree. They hired me because I am smart. They think I can do this. My boss says I am smart and people are saying that I am. It is an inner illusion.
Nancy
Prof at Texas A&M. BS stanford in Math and Econ.
Accidental computer scientist. Offerred a job which required her to go to school in CS. Was told that CS was like math.
When felt like an impostor
Did not feel like an impostor early on.
Feels like an impostor:
- When have to do things not comfortable with.
- Public speaking
In elementary school froze and ran out of classroom.
- Having help. Secretary or assistant. "I'll have my secretary get in touch with yours." Hard time with this.
- Flying first class. This is indicating you are better than everyone. Does not seem right.
- When asked to do something that people I admire has done. Someone wants to recruit for a job I think I don't qualify for.
How to deal
- work on it, practice, practice. Force yourself to take on the roles and do the things which make you uncomfortable.
- Mentor others. To help them.
Q: Lilly from Microsoft. Do others beyond women feel this? A: Men do suffer from it. However the walls that women run into make it worse.
Q: Stephanie from Intel. Ideas about how to make women aware of this from early age? A: I think that role models are important. Also tell them that you as a success still feels insecure sometimes. Q: Are low self-esteem and impostor associated. Has anyone dealt with depression related to stress. A: yes. related. Cycle from low to high. Stress will add to depression. You are not alone. This would be a great topic to speak about after wards in a group. Q: Nadia IBM. I feel like an impostor because I work in mens work situation. Mechanical Engineering. I don't belong in this Man's club. A: I am in robotics. This is a male-dominated field. In lab visits they don't know how to deal with a woman. In korea they had a woman from their lab she had never been invited to go to dinner and she got to come to dinner. They went for "entertainment" afterwards. You end up not knowing what was going on that noone told you. The networking happens in a social situation you are not included in. A: e.g. I started watching football.
Jennifer
Founder and director of a Microsoft new research lab. She planned the concept and successfully sold it to the company. Long resume. Postdocs at Cornell, Harvard. Tenured at 30. Professor of math at UCLA, PHD Princeton. During 4 years at Princeton, no other woman got their PHD in Math or Physics. Many Awards.
When Do You Feel Like an Impostor?
A Masochist? I feel like an impostor when I am around quick smart people. This is a problem because I am always surrounded by these people. I think: Why the hell am I their manager?
I start new things all the time. But then I feel like an impostor.
How to deal with it
A therapist said I am "counter phobic" - What ever I am afraid of I run towards. Two things help:
- Listen to other people talk about this problem.
- Getting old enough not to care.
Q: Liz from Netapp. How to cope. Mentoring. How to mentor if you are unsure.
A: act confident.
Q: CS major. I can act confident. But I am not really. I Don't even try to talk to people like recruiters. I give up because "Why would they want to talk to me?"
A: Ask yourself. What is the worst that could happen?
A: If you are scared, just do it. Practice, practice. Don't just do it once.
A: Find a mentor who will help you prepare.
A: People you admire will have gone through the same thing. Talk to them.
Q: suggestion, not question. RE mentoring. I Work for Mentor net. This is an online way to get a mentor for help. [mentornet.net]
Q: I am a software developer. Fear of being passed over for promotions because your co-workers are spending more time working than you.
A: Practice makes perfect. Connect with other women who are in your same situation. People with families. People who understand.
Links
Blog post from attendees: http://brendal-blog.blogspot.com/2009/10/ghc-imposter-panel.html , http://blogs.sun.com/bubbva/entry/ghc09_imposter_panel
